justice4all
07-21 09:09 PM
Hi All,
Thank you for the overwhelming response. I did skim through the responses and agree with most of the suggestions/comments if not all.
Someone had brought the issue of FIFO and if there is anything in the law that states that FIFO has to be followed. I am not a law expert myself and cannot comment on if there is any such law. But what I am basing is more on the everyday commensense behaviour that all we humans follow for any queue. FIFO is the predominant thing being done for any queue and that will be the most resonable way to process be it a bunch of applicantions waiting on a queue or to service a number of people waiting on a queue in a bank or post office or whereever it might be. That is the fair, unbiased and non-preferential way of doing things. Isn't it?
I want to make sure to convey the point that I first of all wanted to bring this issue to everyone's attention. May be my message was worded strongly, but doesn't mean that I am not flexible.
I thought suing DOL is one of the options. Of course if there are other viable alternatives that will be less demanding, less expensive and will take a more non-confronting approach but still could have an equal impact in terms of resolving the issue amicably then I am all for it. But then the obvious question is what are the other equally good options? Someone mentioned about a petition. So what is a petition and how do we do it? Also mentioned was writing letters to congressmen etc. So who do we contact and how? Please, please anyone having the information please share.
One more thing is that I am all for a dialog with IV core members and their guidance for this. Since I started this thread doesn't mean that I wanted to sideline IVs, but this is the only way I thought I could communicate to the IV platform about the agony of this issue and how people have been affected by this. So I am all for talking with IV core members on this. But please let me know how I could do that?
So please let us start acting now: The list of next possible steps (in no particular order) are:
- Decide if there are viable alternatives to a lawsuit that is more non-confronting and first try them if possible
- Get the support of IV core team for this
- If no other alternatives are available then consider filing a case. Consult an attorney for this
- Raise more awareness about this and get allt he support we can
- Raise some money towards this cause
So please please provide more inputs so that we could start making some real progress. Thanks!!
Hello Risker,
After going through all postings, it is wise to consider the following actions in order:
1. Contact the IV core team and tell our problem. Ask their input about what we can do and whom we need to contact. They may let us in correct direction.
2. In the meantime, Get the details of peoples whose case are still in backlog centre.
3. Finally, nothing works and no one help us, file a lawsuit. (As I dont know anything about the lawsuit here, many of them mentioned that the lawsuit should be done by the employer and there is more possibility of loosing.. We should not lose heart on that. In the suit, we need to ask them to make it current and keep the same filing fees until 30 Sep 07)
P.S. As one of the posting mentioned, we may also consider waiting till Sep 07 before filing lawsuit. Because DOL promised to clear all cases before 30 Sep 07. If they dont then our case become more stronger. Till then we need to contact concerned people (like IV, congressman etc) and collect all infromation.
Thank you for the overwhelming response. I did skim through the responses and agree with most of the suggestions/comments if not all.
Someone had brought the issue of FIFO and if there is anything in the law that states that FIFO has to be followed. I am not a law expert myself and cannot comment on if there is any such law. But what I am basing is more on the everyday commensense behaviour that all we humans follow for any queue. FIFO is the predominant thing being done for any queue and that will be the most resonable way to process be it a bunch of applicantions waiting on a queue or to service a number of people waiting on a queue in a bank or post office or whereever it might be. That is the fair, unbiased and non-preferential way of doing things. Isn't it?
I want to make sure to convey the point that I first of all wanted to bring this issue to everyone's attention. May be my message was worded strongly, but doesn't mean that I am not flexible.
I thought suing DOL is one of the options. Of course if there are other viable alternatives that will be less demanding, less expensive and will take a more non-confronting approach but still could have an equal impact in terms of resolving the issue amicably then I am all for it. But then the obvious question is what are the other equally good options? Someone mentioned about a petition. So what is a petition and how do we do it? Also mentioned was writing letters to congressmen etc. So who do we contact and how? Please, please anyone having the information please share.
One more thing is that I am all for a dialog with IV core members and their guidance for this. Since I started this thread doesn't mean that I wanted to sideline IVs, but this is the only way I thought I could communicate to the IV platform about the agony of this issue and how people have been affected by this. So I am all for talking with IV core members on this. But please let me know how I could do that?
So please let us start acting now: The list of next possible steps (in no particular order) are:
- Decide if there are viable alternatives to a lawsuit that is more non-confronting and first try them if possible
- Get the support of IV core team for this
- If no other alternatives are available then consider filing a case. Consult an attorney for this
- Raise more awareness about this and get allt he support we can
- Raise some money towards this cause
So please please provide more inputs so that we could start making some real progress. Thanks!!
Hello Risker,
After going through all postings, it is wise to consider the following actions in order:
1. Contact the IV core team and tell our problem. Ask their input about what we can do and whom we need to contact. They may let us in correct direction.
2. In the meantime, Get the details of peoples whose case are still in backlog centre.
3. Finally, nothing works and no one help us, file a lawsuit. (As I dont know anything about the lawsuit here, many of them mentioned that the lawsuit should be done by the employer and there is more possibility of loosing.. We should not lose heart on that. In the suit, we need to ask them to make it current and keep the same filing fees until 30 Sep 07)
P.S. As one of the posting mentioned, we may also consider waiting till Sep 07 before filing lawsuit. Because DOL promised to clear all cases before 30 Sep 07. If they dont then our case become more stronger. Till then we need to contact concerned people (like IV, congressman etc) and collect all infromation.
wallpaper Free Moving QUOTES
jayleno
07-07 09:58 AM
Thanks for the update. Cangratulations once again. Genius lawyer indeed. Enjoy your freedom.
As I promised earlier I would keep you guys updated on the process of this case.
On saturday I received the welcome as a permanent resident to USA letter. After trying to get a hold of my attorney I got in touch with him.
Heres the story. (this guy is a genius)
I asked him how it was possible when my PD wasn't current I got GC approval.
His answer was funny and pleasant. Magic :D
He said after the approval of my PERM during filing I-140 under EB2 he also filed a petition under "person with extraordinary ability interest to US" on my behalf. So in other words both the petitions were being processed together at USCIS. Me not aware of USCIS rules wasn't aware of all the lingo so didn't know.
Now the Extraordinary ability petition quota is always current. So when my extraordinary petition was approved the attorney informed the USCIS that to adjucate my adjustment based on this approval. Since the PD was current for this category. USCIS processed and approved the GC based on that. I love this guy I don't have to work for my current employer anymore hence he will get a big surprise when I turn in 2 day resignation. HA...
As I promised earlier I would keep you guys updated on the process of this case.
On saturday I received the welcome as a permanent resident to USA letter. After trying to get a hold of my attorney I got in touch with him.
Heres the story. (this guy is a genius)
I asked him how it was possible when my PD wasn't current I got GC approval.
His answer was funny and pleasant. Magic :D
He said after the approval of my PERM during filing I-140 under EB2 he also filed a petition under "person with extraordinary ability interest to US" on my behalf. So in other words both the petitions were being processed together at USCIS. Me not aware of USCIS rules wasn't aware of all the lingo so didn't know.
Now the Extraordinary ability petition quota is always current. So when my extraordinary petition was approved the attorney informed the USCIS that to adjucate my adjustment based on this approval. Since the PD was current for this category. USCIS processed and approved the GC based on that. I love this guy I don't have to work for my current employer anymore hence he will get a big surprise when I turn in 2 day resignation. HA...
boreal
07-01 05:45 PM
I loved Fragomen. Very responsive and are working over weekends to expedite applications..
I highly recommend them.
I second this. Fragomen is excellent, working over the weekends too..couldnt believe my ears this morning when they called me and asked me to come over to sign the completed applications for me and my wife. I kinda resigned myself to the fact that these big firms will take a while to process these applications and wasnt expecting anything from them atleast till the third week of July.
Just amazing firm...
I highly recommend them.
I second this. Fragomen is excellent, working over the weekends too..couldnt believe my ears this morning when they called me and asked me to come over to sign the completed applications for me and my wife. I kinda resigned myself to the fact that these big firms will take a while to process these applications and wasnt expecting anything from them atleast till the third week of July.
Just amazing firm...
2011 and moving on. quote photo
reddymjm
06-15 09:58 PM
Understood every point of yours & I stand by what you said except for the language as it could have been a bit better. Regarding EB3 or EB2, maybe IV should work attaching a provision as part of its CIR work, which makes USCIS determine whether a candidate is in EB3 or EB2 based on the PERM & 140 instead of letting companies & attorneys mention it. If this happens the process will be much better as USCIS controls the categories & applicants do not need to beg a company to throw them into an EB2 basket or EB3 basket. Also, applicants can have certain amount of freedom from the companies.
When a process is flawed, there is always room for abuse. Of course, the abuse might be minimal, but when we see people with masters & 15 years of experience toiling in EB3 category it pains my heart. It is a fact there could be lesser qualified inidividuals who are in EB2 category, but the companies have managed to use these to hold the employees as hostage.
Hopefully USCIS someday understands this and takes control of assigning applicants into categories than asking company & attorney to mention.
Just sharing my two cents. Also, frustrations from EB3 should be tolerated by IV members, instead of beating them with "red dots". Because if we request members to put their time and effort then it would be mostly EB3 members as they are the "worst" affected. I am sure every year between july-sept most of EB2 members will do bulletin-watching & there is nothing wrong in it.
Next year by this time only EB3 will be here and I dont think many of the EB2 will even bother to read the forum. God bless EB3. Even for those guys with PD in 2003 if you think that you will be lucky in year or two, try buying lottery tickets too. You might win a jackpot.
Good Luck guys...
When a process is flawed, there is always room for abuse. Of course, the abuse might be minimal, but when we see people with masters & 15 years of experience toiling in EB3 category it pains my heart. It is a fact there could be lesser qualified inidividuals who are in EB2 category, but the companies have managed to use these to hold the employees as hostage.
Hopefully USCIS someday understands this and takes control of assigning applicants into categories than asking company & attorney to mention.
Just sharing my two cents. Also, frustrations from EB3 should be tolerated by IV members, instead of beating them with "red dots". Because if we request members to put their time and effort then it would be mostly EB3 members as they are the "worst" affected. I am sure every year between july-sept most of EB2 members will do bulletin-watching & there is nothing wrong in it.
Next year by this time only EB3 will be here and I dont think many of the EB2 will even bother to read the forum. God bless EB3. Even for those guys with PD in 2003 if you think that you will be lucky in year or two, try buying lottery tickets too. You might win a jackpot.
Good Luck guys...
more...
qasleuth
04-10 03:50 PM
As Chanakya is still getting rave reviews :) let me break this down a little more. OPs gripe can be broken into three categories:
1. What is IV doing with all the money collected.
2. What is IVs specific plans for the future/ what has it done in the past
3. Donor forum and general compliants about the concept
# 1. I think trusting IRS and CPA will go a long way. I am not aware of any donations being collected by IV on personal names. Have you sent any money to an individual and not IV the org ?
# 2. About us lists items that IV has done in the past. Do they meet your expectations ? Maybe yes or maybe no. What does advocacy mean ? For both the points, doing some research will help. Why we did not have stellar succeses with past campaigns ? Advocacy, how quickly can we be successful. Google and find out.
#3 Donor forum. Search the forums and find out how much money was collected by campaigns mentioned by ChanduV. Pennies. Two different reasons in my opinion as to why the donor forums have been created. 1. obviously to collect donations 2. the section has 'premium' content like regular updates, quick responses from core, information which cannot be made available publicly without harming the efforts etc.
All the other things about donor forum is nothing but emotional garbage.
1. What is IV doing with all the money collected.
2. What is IVs specific plans for the future/ what has it done in the past
3. Donor forum and general compliants about the concept
# 1. I think trusting IRS and CPA will go a long way. I am not aware of any donations being collected by IV on personal names. Have you sent any money to an individual and not IV the org ?
# 2. About us lists items that IV has done in the past. Do they meet your expectations ? Maybe yes or maybe no. What does advocacy mean ? For both the points, doing some research will help. Why we did not have stellar succeses with past campaigns ? Advocacy, how quickly can we be successful. Google and find out.
#3 Donor forum. Search the forums and find out how much money was collected by campaigns mentioned by ChanduV. Pennies. Two different reasons in my opinion as to why the donor forums have been created. 1. obviously to collect donations 2. the section has 'premium' content like regular updates, quick responses from core, information which cannot be made available publicly without harming the efforts etc.
All the other things about donor forum is nothing but emotional garbage.
arunmohan
06-08 06:17 PM
hello imigration voice members.Maybe we escaped out of fire this time but we should never forget that "fire "is still on under "frypan" .So each and every member should make efforts to set off this fire.
more...
paskal
09-29 04:47 PM
then why are visas about to be wasted yet again this year?
after...they said all numbers were exhausted on July 2?
i think it's not quite that simple.
there is no doubt that lack of numbers is a key key issue. but letting uscis off the hook when they have failed to process 269,000 Green Card numbers since 1994 is not kosher. that is >20% of the backlog right there.
my straightforward NIW application based on national interest service not exceptional ability (which may be more subjective) will take almost a year to process. wow....!
uscis also takes the narrowest interpretations of any law- even when it clearly conflicts with the law's intent- then it takes a lawsuit to budge them- speaking from personal experience and the loss of 4 years in PD in an India line...believe me this is not an agency i feel like defending.
just my 2c.
after...they said all numbers were exhausted on July 2?
i think it's not quite that simple.
there is no doubt that lack of numbers is a key key issue. but letting uscis off the hook when they have failed to process 269,000 Green Card numbers since 1994 is not kosher. that is >20% of the backlog right there.
my straightforward NIW application based on national interest service not exceptional ability (which may be more subjective) will take almost a year to process. wow....!
uscis also takes the narrowest interpretations of any law- even when it clearly conflicts with the law's intent- then it takes a lawsuit to budge them- speaking from personal experience and the loss of 4 years in PD in an India line...believe me this is not an agency i feel like defending.
just my 2c.
2010 quotes on moving on and
svam77
07-23 11:34 AM
You got me wrong. I am not saying that, we are safe side filing this way.
Its better filing than not doing anything ....As simple as that .......
If people get their receipt, well and good ....or else just file and forget .....
But dont sit idle just because ur attornery does not want to file ....
Dont think too much about the mail room or the employees or the contractos there or whoever ...........As I said, if u have receipt well and good, or else just file with other docs, but do file ....
Its better filing than not doing anything ....As simple as that .......
If people get their receipt, well and good ....or else just file and forget .....
But dont sit idle just because ur attornery does not want to file ....
Dont think too much about the mail room or the employees or the contractos there or whoever ...........As I said, if u have receipt well and good, or else just file with other docs, but do file ....
more...
Alabaman
07-03 04:18 PM
Excellent news!!
I am real optimistic that introduction of a separate bill (SKIL)will definitely make its way through. Passage of CIR is primarily restricted because of illegal issues. I hope the house and senate look at the passage of SKIL Bill as a critical step (even if some don't like it).
Wait until they start getting to the details before being optimistic.
By the way, how long does it take for a bill to get debated and voted on from the time it is introduced? Months? Years??
I am real optimistic that introduction of a separate bill (SKIL)will definitely make its way through. Passage of CIR is primarily restricted because of illegal issues. I hope the house and senate look at the passage of SKIL Bill as a critical step (even if some don't like it).
Wait until they start getting to the details before being optimistic.
By the way, how long does it take for a bill to get debated and voted on from the time it is introduced? Months? Years??
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snathan
03-20 09:37 PM
H1 is always new? it could be, but not in case of a transfer
Any way good luck.
There is nothing really called transfer. When you are filing for the first time its counted against the cap. Otherwise its not. So when you are transfering the H1
1. You are not counted against the cap
2. Need to prove you are in status.
Any way good luck.
There is nothing really called transfer. When you are filing for the first time its counted against the cap. Otherwise its not. So when you are transfering the H1
1. You are not counted against the cap
2. Need to prove you are in status.
more...
TomPlate
07-05 09:15 AM
I am going to file today.
hot quotes on moving on and
BharatPremi
12-10 11:08 AM
I am not sure why we are focusing so much on the negatives of Plano meeting. There were so many new members for this meeting. I am not sure why nobody is focusing on this positive outcome.
Yes, there was certainly a positive outcome as well. This meeting certainly established some members (Mostly who attended - Most old , some new) as "dedicated ones". Now coming to your question... I would not say it as "negatives".. rather I would say it as "self correction"... If I have some flaws or my organization has some flaws, it is my duty to recognize it and try to correct it. If these self correction methods applied to very early stage of organization, it would be good for everybody in a long run. No organization can run without accumulative efforts from everybody. Yes, in Dallas we have many dedicated members but when you see some members dedicating time, money, communication and others even not attending the meet forget about contributing efforts then something is definately wrong and you need to accept it and adddress it. I think needhelp and logiclife are doing that here.
One thing everybody need to understand is that we are sitting on a fire and with getting EAD if we do not want to understand that fact than nobody can save us. Collective efforts bring enthusiasm, oneness and societal brotherhood feelings which pushes more to people for standing up for the cause. Now say if we do not address this then what will happen is slowly people dedicating will be disheartening for putting more rigorus efforts which situation definately demands. I request all members to analyze this with calm mind and if you feel truth in this please start sharing all kind of required efforts sincerely and help us create a miracle. Yes it will be miracle to convince congress and senate for bringing solution to our problems.
Yes, there was certainly a positive outcome as well. This meeting certainly established some members (Mostly who attended - Most old , some new) as "dedicated ones". Now coming to your question... I would not say it as "negatives".. rather I would say it as "self correction"... If I have some flaws or my organization has some flaws, it is my duty to recognize it and try to correct it. If these self correction methods applied to very early stage of organization, it would be good for everybody in a long run. No organization can run without accumulative efforts from everybody. Yes, in Dallas we have many dedicated members but when you see some members dedicating time, money, communication and others even not attending the meet forget about contributing efforts then something is definately wrong and you need to accept it and adddress it. I think needhelp and logiclife are doing that here.
One thing everybody need to understand is that we are sitting on a fire and with getting EAD if we do not want to understand that fact than nobody can save us. Collective efforts bring enthusiasm, oneness and societal brotherhood feelings which pushes more to people for standing up for the cause. Now say if we do not address this then what will happen is slowly people dedicating will be disheartening for putting more rigorus efforts which situation definately demands. I request all members to analyze this with calm mind and if you feel truth in this please start sharing all kind of required efforts sincerely and help us create a miracle. Yes it will be miracle to convince congress and senate for bringing solution to our problems.
more...
house quotes about moving on
mshelat
05-03 11:28 AM
This is really an intersting and very important information for people on H1B wih H4 dependents. Is there any one who has inquired about this with SSA? I am planning to do it next week and shall inform the forum.
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anilsal
11-09 12:40 AM
Suresh, stop posting this link in every thread. What are you trying to achieve?
more...
pictures Quotes About Moving On And
vkotval
06-13 08:57 PM
* USCIS Processing Fees
I-485: $325.00
(Per person) I-131: $170.00
I-765: $180.00
Fingerprints: $ 70.00
TOTAL $745.00
* USCIS Processing Fees I-485: $225.00
(Per CHILD under I-131: $170.00
14 years of age) I-765: $180.00
TOTAL $575.00
I-485: $325.00
(Per person) I-131: $170.00
I-765: $180.00
Fingerprints: $ 70.00
TOTAL $745.00
* USCIS Processing Fees I-485: $225.00
(Per CHILD under I-131: $170.00
14 years of age) I-765: $180.00
TOTAL $575.00
dresses quotes about moving on from a
eeezzz
03-24 10:26 AM
I agree , especially if it fits majority of them ( and the 'types' of them ).
One needs real diversity in US population. There are too many here from EU.
It's really meaningless for you to keep talking about "too many here from EU". This country is formed by those people from EU(and American Indians) to start with. If you were here two hundred years ago, you were part of them, no one will ask you for GC. Those people who came to this land two hundred years ago and their descendants are now recognized as Americans. They are no longer English, German, French, Italian...etc. They are Americans and this is their country which is called United State of America.
When this country starts the immigration law, does the law say only people from Asia is limited to 7% and not for people from EU ?
If this country today has no limitation with immigration and welcome anyone to come and stay forever at any time. This country will not be a great country anymore and I am sure many of you will not care to come to this land anymore but seek for another place.
One needs real diversity in US population. There are too many here from EU.
It's really meaningless for you to keep talking about "too many here from EU". This country is formed by those people from EU(and American Indians) to start with. If you were here two hundred years ago, you were part of them, no one will ask you for GC. Those people who came to this land two hundred years ago and their descendants are now recognized as Americans. They are no longer English, German, French, Italian...etc. They are Americans and this is their country which is called United State of America.
When this country starts the immigration law, does the law say only people from Asia is limited to 7% and not for people from EU ?
If this country today has no limitation with immigration and welcome anyone to come and stay forever at any time. This country will not be a great country anymore and I am sure many of you will not care to come to this land anymore but seek for another place.
more...
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cagedcactus
10-22 10:19 AM
yes it was very encouraging to see all the confirmed and some more showed up...
We could clearly see that all the members were upbeat and ready to go...
WD, many thanks for the information and material you prepared for the meeting. You are clearly our technical and knowledge source leader....
We will continue with the game plan... as you noted down step by step.
Our first goal now is to have a phone meeting with leaders where we can gather up some training material, and discussion points.
We also need some information on how to approach the senators locally, and set up meetings... what should be brought up in the meeting and what should be avoided... etc...
I appreciate all those who came, and also those who wanted to come but couldnt due to some legit reasons....
Our first meeting was a huge step. Others need to see this, and start participating in the local drive.... we dont need your money here, you can continue contributing to IV .... we just need your time and help so we can do this together..... we can defeat this monster together....
Rise Michigan.... rise now.... we do this now.... or never..... for the sake of your family, friends, fellow countrymen, and all those who are affected due to these unfair backlogs....
We could clearly see that all the members were upbeat and ready to go...
WD, many thanks for the information and material you prepared for the meeting. You are clearly our technical and knowledge source leader....
We will continue with the game plan... as you noted down step by step.
Our first goal now is to have a phone meeting with leaders where we can gather up some training material, and discussion points.
We also need some information on how to approach the senators locally, and set up meetings... what should be brought up in the meeting and what should be avoided... etc...
I appreciate all those who came, and also those who wanted to come but couldnt due to some legit reasons....
Our first meeting was a huge step. Others need to see this, and start participating in the local drive.... we dont need your money here, you can continue contributing to IV .... we just need your time and help so we can do this together..... we can defeat this monster together....
Rise Michigan.... rise now.... we do this now.... or never..... for the sake of your family, friends, fellow countrymen, and all those who are affected due to these unfair backlogs....
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LONGGCQUE
05-21 03:55 PM
Just paid $100 for this effort. Here are the details of transaction -
Transaction ID: 98W07634EB610043U
An email with your order summary has been sent to xxxxxx@gmail.com
Merchant Contact Information
Immigration Voice
donations@immigrationvoice.org
850-391-4966
SUGAUR >> YOU ROCK :)
Transaction ID: 98W07634EB610043U
An email with your order summary has been sent to xxxxxx@gmail.com
Merchant Contact Information
Immigration Voice
donations@immigrationvoice.org
850-391-4966
SUGAUR >> YOU ROCK :)
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logiclife
06-19 07:14 PM
I doubt if the house is going to toe the senate line on the CIR. The new bill that has been introduced in the House is seen as a rebuke to Bush, directly contradicting the Senate version. I think this CIR will be killed in the house if it somehow passes the Senate.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-immig20jun20,0,3608273.story?coll=la-home-center
That is another HR 4437 in the making.
The House leadership is so silent in this issue, its hard to find out what Speaker Pelosi and Maj. leader Hoyer want to do. The only thing they have said is "Illegal immigration is a problem and we need support of 70 Republicans to schedule an immigration bill". That's it. Nothing new. No comments, no discussions, nothing.
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-immig20jun20,0,3608273.story?coll=la-home-center
That is another HR 4437 in the making.
The House leadership is so silent in this issue, its hard to find out what Speaker Pelosi and Maj. leader Hoyer want to do. The only thing they have said is "Illegal immigration is a problem and we need support of 70 Republicans to schedule an immigration bill". That's it. Nothing new. No comments, no discussions, nothing.
gauravster
02-25 10:11 AM
No immigrant Visa is available until the thing is current. From my understanding, Adavnce Parole is not a visa. Quoting from the net.
"Advance Parole is permission for certain foreign nationals, who do not have a valid immigrant visa, to reenter the U.S. after traveling abroad"
"Advance Parole is permission for certain foreign nationals, who do not have a valid immigrant visa, to reenter the U.S. after traveling abroad"
needhelp!
02-15 02:12 PM
Friends rule!
Just heard that my friend has collected 20 petition letters for me, thanks Tarina! Very excited to be at 194 this morning :)
Just heard that my friend has collected 20 petition letters for me, thanks Tarina! Very excited to be at 194 this morning :)
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